Posts Tagged ‘border collies’

Updated, post on our Prozac trazadone fear aggressive dog

30 Apr

Many of you have asked for an update on our pup.  First, I am waiting on an iPad so please excuse my mistakes, later I hope to come back and fix any error or typos with a real computer but thumb typing isn’t my thing.

So, Whiskey is 4.5 years old already, time flies.  We still have his brother, Golden Retriever, Ares, who is almost 11.  They adore each other.  Ares is getting old though and we don’t know how much longer we will have him for.  Whiskey still takes Prozac each day, 30 mg, and 200 mg of trazadone in the morning and 200 mg at night.  If we miss a dose, you can tell.

He sleeps in as we like to and is fully awake and bugging us after 11:00 am.  He usually wants to play or interact by each then.  We usually will either throw a frisbee, throw a soccer ball, play get the dog with tug included, or catch the hose game.  After he will settle down for a while.  Later, he asks for a second play time and we do one of the same or dog training.  Finally, around dinner, we take him for a walk.  On a weekend, we might go to a public park or our 4 acres where he can run for leash and run in the creek.

On walks:  he ignores people, 99 percent of the time unless someone gets right in his face talk to him or f he felt his space was being invaded.  We keep distance from people in general, he wears a vest that says give me space.  When walking in close proximity, I have him heel to me and he is fine.  He never lunges or tries to go after people like he used to. He doesn’t seem triggered by them at all.  He trusts that we won’t let them touch him and this is the only thing that would set him off.

My sister in law thought she was “different” and could touch him and it would be fine, so she did, he gave her a light bite to say, no, I am not okay with that.  I think it was good, he controlled the bite, didn’t over react and made a clear statement, she handled it well too by reading his message, not overreacting and not freaking but just moving on calmly.

When people come over, he can be behind a wire only fence hat he could easily break through but it acts as a psychological barrier to define his space.  He sees someone new, he will give a little warning growl but that’s it.

He can be loose,in the house with strangers if they follow he rules and are not fearful.  They must do no look, no touch, nomination all, no eye contact.  Then they must play some bonding games with him, that’s all it takes.

Other dogs are the biggest problems.  His brother Ares, makes it worse.  He gets Whisk all,triggered by barking at them.  When Ares passes, we will have better luck calming Whiskey about other dogs.  He sees dogs on walks and gets tense but I say, leave it, and he will probably ignore.  He never starts it with a dog but if a dog starts it with him, he will get more physical and difficult to distract.  I would never put him face to face with a dog, maybe a puppy, slowly.  I think he has potential but it will require work.

i tried to meet with the Si Means Sit trainer to discuss Whiskey’s progress and what we learned about him and how he responds.  I really feel like an expert with all I have read and worked through with my dog and I know I am an expert on MY dog since I have trained him it’s many approaches and have learned how he responds to different methods based on his needs.  I was hoping he and I could work as a team, that I could learn from him and he could adjust things based on what I had learned works and doesn’t work,specifically for Whiskey.  He didn’t seem interested in that, he seemed to imply HE was the he expert on all dogs with anxiety and you have to push them to get anywhere.  Pushing Whiskey shuts him down, makes him lose,trust, and no growth is achieved because all he has is flight, flight, fear going on.  You have to teach these dogs at a place of safety, close enough to the water that they see it, maybe get their feet wet but don’t throw them n and hope they learn to swim.  It’s called threshold and I strongly believe in it.  So, I was very disappointed not to continue  what I was hoping could be a partnership to continue to improve Whiskey.

We have been busy with other things but still work on his training and hope to get back to a situation where we can find someone to help us work and on his proximity to people and dogs.








Progress with Whiskey – Border Collie Fear Aggression

27 Apr

April 27th 2015

Onward we travel in our quest of helping a very fearful Border Collie escape his demons.

Whiskey is over 2 years now and we have spent lots of money on different trainers, training techniques, and invested much time into learning these many methods.  We have had some great gains.  If you consider Whiskey at 10, being the most aggressive Cujo attack dog who wants to attack and bite any person or dog he sees, we went from a 10 to 6.  This means we still have a long way to go as the goal would be to get to a 0 (not going to happen) or 1, maybe 2.

Here are some of Whiskey’s old traits / Progress in red.

  •  Just seeing someone, would start aggression.  Sees people nearby, does not react.
  • Anyone talking to him, would start aggression.  Shows some mild stress when people say his name but does not get aggressive usually.
  •  Any dog, in sight would start aggression, whining, fear.  Can see dogs on walks and ignore them.
  • Any person entering home would be an outright attack.  Can be guided to deal with strangers entering to house and watch calming – inside crate, tied, or on leash.
  • Anyone touching him = bite.  Still a problem, does not like touch
  • Anyone near him = tries to bite.  People can stand near him now and ignore him and he is fine.
  • Wouldn’t even play games with strangers.  He will play games with strangers.
  • Could not be distracted from his fears.  He can play ball and avoid things that scare him like a dog walking by.
  • Would see children and always lunge and attack.  Children still make him nervous but he does not try to lunge and attack by default anymore.
  • Would see kids playing in yard next door, would try to attack through fence.  With ecollar, will ignore kids running around yard, up to fence, and playing ball.
  • Would see dogs walking near fence, would charge fence, bark, and whine.  With ecollar, will just watch dogs walk by fence with no barking, charging, or whining.


So, you can see how much progress we have made.  We have found that using the ecollar with the really tough situations is helpful.  We use it just with the charging outside (kids playing and charging after dogs), he actually doesn’t even get “zapped” much anymore because he knows he is not supposed to charge the fence and will usually remember and just stop himself or listen as I give him a verbal warning first, if there is time.

We also try to continue with the positive reinforcement rewards for everything as well.  We even pair the ecollar with treats, “dog walks by, Whiskey chooses not to charge, bark, or whine, then comes inside, he gets a treat.”

With nicer weather coming up we need to start finding more scenarios where we can work with getting closer to other dogs and practicing people touching him, those are our two biggest hurdles.

We did have to take him to the vet and had to totally sedate him for the exam.  It worked out okay.  We also increased his trazadone to 200 mg am and 200 mg pm in addition to his prozac to see if we can lower his anxiety more.



Fear Aggression in Dogs – How to treat

12 Aug

Dog Fear Aggression is one of the most difficult behavior problems to deal with in dogs.   There are different types of aggression in dogs and it is important you know what type of aggression your dog is showing because how you treat dominant aggression vs. resource guarding (a type of aggression) vs. fear aggression  are different.  Dogs that are showing aggression because they are afraid and lack confidence usually will not improve if they are then treated with a heavy hand.  The idea of PACK LEADER is well known and is often thought of as THE method of treating all behavior issues in dogs.  With the show Dog Whisperer by Caesar Millan, it appears that everything CAN be fixed with pack leader mentality.  This is not to say that the concept of pack leader is not important, it is, but how it is used with a fear aggressive dog has to be done carefully or you can make things worse.  If you start doing the Caesar “touch” or the alpha roll with a fearful dog, you will just make them more afraid and will therefore not get to the root of the problem.

It is NOT POSSIBLE to fix fear aggression in a day or week.  If anyone, including Casear Millan thinks he can come to my home and fix my dog in one session, then they don’t understand serious fear aggression.  In serious cases, fear aggression can take years to fix.  We have been working for one year now and we have made a lot of progress but we still have a fear aggressive dog and it may take a year or two more to hopefully get to the point where he begins to resemble somewhat of a “normal” dog, although he may never be there completely.

So what do you need to do?  First, you do need to be a strong leader for your dog.  Your dog needs to know that you are its protector and that you have his or her back!  Your dog needs to be fully bonded with you and have full trust in you.  You need to be an advocate for your dog and not put your dog in situations where he will be overly stressed, worried, or fearful.  You need to tell people to back off, not touch him, keep him away from anything that frightens him such as people, children, or other dogs.  You will gradually increase him in controlled situations to his fears but first he needs to know that you are his protector before the rest will begin to have real strong positive impacts.  If your dog is afraid of other dogs, then whenever you see another dog, you turn and walk away and increase your distance as much as you can from other dogs.  YOU move away ALWAYS.   If you cannot for some reason, you find some way to distract your dog.  Our dog likes to look for bunnies, so we bring him to the side of the woods and tell him to look for bunnies and other dogs can pass by and he won’t pay attention because we keep saying, “where are the bunnies?”  You also build trust by playing your dog’s favorite games, teaching him obedience in a non-stressful obedience setting (if he is afraid of strangers, this means you do it at home by yourself, watch Youtube videos, there are lots of great videos out there… and if you have a border collie… lots of which are fear aggressive, it will be easy, border collies are soooo smart, get a clicker and some treats and your border collie will be doing Calculus in no time).

After you have full trust and are very bonded with your fear aggressive dog, you begin to work on his fear aggressive issues.  You do this in POSITIVE ways.  You never want to treat fear with a negative stimulus (chain jerks, yelling, poking, alpha rolls, etc.)  You also need to remember your dog cannot learn if they are very stressed, so you have to go PAINFULLY SLOW.  This is why it takes so long to make progress.  You have to keep your dog very far away from what he is afraid of, just close enough that he notices but feels far enough away that he feels safe, then he can learn.  You begin to de-condition him.    There are many different “games” you can play and there is something called BAT that seems like it wouldn’t work, but it does, it is just SLOW.

I will tell you that I am a type A person and an overachiever type and now I have this adorable dog that I love, who is so smart that I want to take off leash and run and play with but can’t be around people or dogs!  Here I am trying to read and learn about how to fix him.  I read these CRAZY things like BAT… I will admit, my first response was not positive… there has to be a better way or a faster way… and we started with the SHORT CUTS… but they didn’t work and when we tried a bunch of the games, they all helped but he actually seemed to respond to BAT a lot.  For those who don’t feel like looking it up right now and don’t know what BAT is, I will give you a very short description…

There is BAT and BAT 2.0, I mix the two… but what I do is have someone with a trigger (or I find a trigger, i.e. a dog, on a walk) a bit down the road, we walk towards the trigger, when my dog, Whiskey, notices the trigger, I guide him (gently) to a stop (we are at a nice distance – as you get better you decrease the distance) and let him just watch the trigger (not obsessively stare) and then choose to do a positive response (usually walking away from the trigger but could be sniffing, yawning, shaking, or licking), I click (or say a loud YES) and we walk away from the trigger (his reward is walking away from the trigger).  Then we repeat.  If he doesn’t choose a positive response soon enough, you guide a turn and reward at the turn, if he reacts negatively (stare, growl, bark, lunge) then you are too close and you do it again and don’t get as close to the trigger.

If you read some of my other posts on my journal of fear aggression with Whiskey on this blog, you can read about some the games including “Autowatch”, “Throw a Party,” “Four Steps to Focus,” etc. that you can do as games to work on aggression.  You can also use touch to help work on his fear of people and the better obedience training you have, the more control you have in general.

If your dog is very fear aggressive, you will probably need medication.  Medication has been a huge help to Whiskey.  We started with just Prozac and it helped a little but we added Trazadone and that made a huge difference.

Whiskey is less afraid / aggressive when out in public.  When he is in our house, he has some territorial aggression in addition to his fear aggression but we are now at the point that he has to be created when adults (we don’t trust children) first come in the house we crate him but after they come in the house and are there for a bit, he can be let out and as long as they don’t try to touch him (he is very afraid of touch) he does not react anymore.  This is a huge improvement over a dog that acted like Cujo anytime he saw a person in any situation from the time he was a baby.  He wouldn’t even play ball with strangers as a baby, now he will play ball with any stranger willing to play!

I can’t stress enough how severe he was and how far we have come in a year.  Some people would look at where he is now and think we are crazy to keep a “dog like him,” but he has come so far and we see progress on a regular basis so I don’t see any reason that we won’t continue to see progress if we keep working on his issues.  I know of people who have managed to pass the Good Citizen/Canine Test eventually with a fear aggressive dog, so that is our ultimate goal.

He is a wonderful dog with his family.  He is very loving, playful, cuddly, and bonded.  If you have a fear aggressive dog and are working on rehabilitation, good for you!  It takes special people to do it.  Most of world (since we hear it a lot, even from family and friends) would just put the dog down.